KEF104/2 (4) 해외 유저들의 앰프추천

2016/03/18 - [스피커/스피커] - KEF 104/2 (5)구형과 신형 차이 및 잘못된 정보

2014/04/01 - [▶빈티지 오디오/▶빈티지 스피커] - (3) KEF104/2 큐브는 필수인가?

2014/03/31 - [▶빈티지 오디오/스피커] - KEF 104/2 스피커 정보 모으기 (2) 앰프 매칭편

2013/04/03 - [▶빈티지 오디오/스피커] - KEF 104/2 정보 모으기!! (1) 3/5의 중역유닛이 장착된 괴물 스피커

Help KEF 104/2 what amp do I need to drive them?

...(중략)...

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아래 영문 질의에서 추천 앰프 발췌.

KEF 104/2 매칭에 대해서,  국내 유저들의 일반적인 추천과 비교하자면, 해외유저들은 절대적으로 파워앰프 위주로 추천하고 있다. 익히 알려진 것처럼 KEF 104/2 는 저역 구동 문제로 순도높은 파워가 중요한 것으로 이해된다. 해외유저들은 훨씬 더 높은 등급의 앰프 사용을 당연시하고 있다는 것을 알수 있다.

일단, KEF 104/2 는 Not a receiver friendly speaker 다. 리시버로는 안되는 스피커다.

오디오랩 8000P

사이러스2 + psx

구형 네임 : Nap 250 , 135

브라이스턴 4b

 Linn Intek as a preamp with a Quad 606

포르테 모델4  , 4a

Aragon 4004

older Mark Levinson amp (can't remember if it was the No. 20 or the older ML-3)

"Dynaco" Mark III mono blocks(KT88s)

매킨토시 2300 

레가 Mira 인티

추천 안함 한 표 : 크렐 300i

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Madison

madmanbmw06-25-2005 12:35am

seandtaylor99

1,262 posts

06-25-2005 4:14am

I think these speaker have low impedance at low frequencies, so they need a lot of current delivery ... that's probably where the yamaha falls over.

At $500 it's tricky to find good current delivery, but NAD and rotel would be the first names that come to my mind. If your receiver has preamp outputs just get a poweramp and you could get a better preamp later.

If you can find one then a used Audiolab 8000P power amp would work well and is a step up from NAD/rotel.

And if you ever find a used Mission Cyrus 2 with the PSX power supply then that would work a treat, but they are rare as hens teeth.

In fact here's one that looks good.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124652835

quadophile

417 posts

06-25-2005 4:48am

I agree Cyrus 2 is a good amp but I have a feeling that it would run out of steam if pushed too much. It entirely depends on your listening habits. If you do not play it loud the Cyrus would be a great amp. 

사이러스2는 좋은 앰프지만, 볼륨을 높였을 때, 다소 김빠진 느낌, 힘이 다 빠진 느낌이였다. ( PSX 연결한 사이러스2는 또 다른 소린데, 이 표현은 명확하지 않음.)

I have heard many NAD amps and also own one (25 watter) and I have a feeling that it may be a great all rounder for your 104, I have the Kef Reference 2 which is a direct decendant of the 104 in terms of woofer configuration, I can tell you that the Kef is a bear to drive. They needs loads of current and at your budget your best bet would be something like the NAD 370 used or even 372 if you can get hold of within your budget. NAD has very good reputation when it comes to budget equipment. Rotel as already pointed out is also a great chice to drive the KEF's but they are slightly forward sounding compared to the NAD. They tend to be slightly more expensive as well compared to NAD.

Good Luck with your hunting for an amp!

seandtaylor99

1,262 posts

06-25-2005 4:55am

The Cyrus 2 would need a PSX to really sing with KEFs.

In England a friend of mine ran Kef 103/4 with a Cyrus 2 / PSX and he could blow the walls off in a large living room.

But they're so rare it's probably a non-issue.

madmanbmw OP

8 posts

06-25-2005 5:07am

I may have a friend willing to give me a deal on the Krell 300i integrated amp. I think it is 125w per channel for stereo but other than that I do not know much.

How would this do with the KEFs?

thanks

madison

06-25-2005 5:40am

I have done extesive listening with the Kef/Krell combo and I was not impressed with the 300i, very cold sounding amp. The current setup that I have is Quad 606II which sounds far better with the Kef's, the NAD has a sound closer to Quad and Cyrus than Krell. Besides the 300i was not a good model, infact some think it was the biggest mistake Krell made. Krell was also very quick to come up with an upgraded one. If any other Krell was being discussed my opinion would not be same.

If it is easily available to you for audition, by all means try it, you can make your own judgement.

devon

35 posts

06-25-2005 6:41am

A pair of Kef 104.2 were my first speakers and I attempted to pair them with a Hafler DH 500......not good...under powered...especially at "party volume".

Just some info on what doesn't work.

madmanbmw OP

8 posts

06-27-2005 2:31pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I am looking into the brands you all suggested. Does anyone else have any more advice and/or experience with these speakers?

madison

mtmajor@uiuc.edu

audioengr

2,514 posts

06-28-2005 1:21am

The KEF 104/2 is a true high-end speaker that can compete with the best on the market with mods and the right amplification. It sounds better and better with higher-power and lower impedance amps. My modified pair were called "killer speakers" at CES this year (dont ask - the mods are $6K). I use modified Parasound JC-1's to drive them - delivers ~1000W/chnl into 3 ohms.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Manufacturer/modder

rking100

7 posts

06-28-2005 2:50am

MMBMW, if you don't mind running Class A amps, they run hot and you normally wouldn't leave them on all the time...like tube amps. I would suggest waiting for a Forte Model 4 or 4A. I am very familiar with the Kef "sound" and in particular your speakers from their inception as the plain old 104 ( had the originals when I lived in Germany). I have owned the Forte amp and it's bass with match your Kef bass perfectly. This amp is also very musical and non-fatiguing, much like how the Brits like their sound. You may have to shell out another $100 or even $200 over your $500 budget, but it would be worth it. Synergy is always the key to good music and the Forte and Kef combo is a perfect match. Don't let the 40 wpc fool you, this amp is pure Class A and powerful! I'd be patient and wait for one to pop up on the Gon. My 2 cents, good luck.

texsun

21 posts

06-30-2005 2:30am

Having owned the 104.2 for some 5 years now, I wouldn’t call them particularly picky. Like most good designs they do respond to better amplification, but, as your experience shows, they will sound decent with even mediocre amplification. I’ve run mine with everything from Rotel receivers to a Bryston 4B to a Rega Mira integrated. The most notable improvement from better amplification is in the bass, which can sound loose and wooly if underpowered.

The Cyrus is a good recommendation, though a bit hard to find here in the US. The Rega really surprised me with it’s relatively low power rating. It did an excellent job (especially for $400!) controlling the bass while extending the highs as well as the Kefs’ soundstage. Considering that you haven’t budgeted funds for a preamp, I’d go the integrated route for now. Solid offerings from Rega, Cambridge, Rotel, etc... are within your budget.

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building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?

 Post subject: building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:49 pm 

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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:25 pm

Posts: 21

Location: Vancouver, BC, CA

Ive been messing around buying different vintage amps and its a fun game learning how different amps sound.

But i've decided to build my system around my new favorite component(s) - Kef 104/2.

I'd like to limit cost to around $1000 . 

It will also be matched to my Adcom rdac for my Mac apple TV driven library and internet music listening. 

I listen to vinyl on a Thorens TD 160.

I like my rock n' roll.

i like buying used if i can. (i think i've developed a weird compulsion to buy vintage equip - but thats a diff issue)

thanks in advance for any who take the time to offer their suggestions.

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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:26 am

Posts: 52

Location: Barrie, ON, CA

Hi there--I use a set of 104/2 my parents bought new in 1986. I worked in retail and had a chance for a deal and "offered" it to them. Sad but true that for 20 years, they were used so my Dad could hear the TV off a cheap Denon receiver (LOL) 

I currently use a YBA 2 on them and it plays plenty loud for me and sounds good. At the store I worked at, we used Denon POA 6600 blocks, Adcom GFA amps, and Carver M 1.0's. Carvers are pretty cheap these days--but based on what you said you like, I think a nice Bryston 4B would be great on these great speakers. The 4B would also be from a similar time period.

FWIW-I tried a CJ tube pre with SS amp--was ""OK"" Went to a CJ Pre and a CJ MV 60SE and was also ""OK"". I used to work for the CDN CJ Distributor and know what that brand is capable of, but came to the conclusion the 104's work best (for me) on Solid State.

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:19 am

Posts: 1043

Location: London, ON, CA

Old school Naim!!!!

Try to find a refurbished Nap 250 or a pair of 135's....I've been here and if I was 100% honest I don't think I have experienced visceral audio like my old 104/2 or 107's through the Naim...it is a combo made in heaven ( i could be waxing a bit nastalgic here) and I loved it. I only sold my 104/2's in '02... And they went through a lot of different equipment but never really sang with anything like the old Naim gear

Nap 250

Nap 135

stereo3

 Post subject: Re: building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:02 pm 

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Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:48 pm

Posts: 261

Location: London, ON, CA

Quad transistor amps and 104/2 speakers have been a constant in our family system for over 20 years. Have different gear that I swap out sometimes but everyone always thinks this combo sounds best. Tried Naim Linn Arcam Mac and Bryston over the years. And that is the ones I remember. These speakers are easy to drive but the larger Quad amps like the 909 really bring out the dynamics in the music. Have used preamps that sound better than the Quad offerings but the they don't look as cool with the Quad gear. I remember using my old Linn Intek as a preamp with a 606 and it sounded great. Actually still have both. Might hook them up this weekend.

audioexcellenceinc

 Post subject: Re: building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:53 am 

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Dealer/Sponsor

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:41 am

Posts: 52

Location: Vaughan, ON, CA

Ah the 104/2...fond memories of that speaker. And the 107s! See if you can find an Aragon 4004. 

Designed by Dan D'Agostino formerly of Krell, and built like a tank...dual mono construction, 200 watts/ch at 8 ohms and easily doubling into 4. Used to sell them to drive very difficult loads like Apogees if the client didn't want to spend the money for Krells/Levinsons etc. One of my favourite amps of all time, especially considering the price. You should be able to pick one up for well under $1,000 today. I have one in my personal collection. 

Best,

Adrian Low

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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:20 pm

Posts: 2120

Location: Toronto, ON, CA

One more vote for the QUAD SS amp. I drove my pair of KEF (single-wire) 104/2 with QUAD 606 mk II before I switched to a pair of QUAD ESL63. I have also driven my pair with Classe' CA100 w/ limited success (too warm?) but it is the QUAD the make me forgot about gears and listen to the musics. I used to have a NAD304 integrated amp. and have even tried to match it up with the 104/2 too - but it ran "out of steam" w/ the music sounding strained. However, the gentleman who sold me the 104/2 really nailed it with older Mark Levinson amp (can't remember if it was the No. 20 or the older ML-3). He also have had a QUAD system (44 + 405-II).

 ** nailed it with ~ : (정확하게, 끝내주게) 처리하다.

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:38 pm

Posts: 1093

Location: Saskatoon, SK, CA

You're doing the right thing, Building the system around the speakers. If you can possibly hear some of the amplifiers that would help. Back in the day I ran my 104/2 with the Mission Cyrus II/PSX option. That gave me 125 watts at 4 ohms. I loved that system until I got Kef 107. :lol:

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frankraw

 Post subject: Re: building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:35 pm 

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Posts: 9

Location: Errington, BC, CA

Well, I would suggest a different path entirely. I ran mine for quite awhile(1-2 years) with my "Dynaco" ST70 and now run them with hot-rodded and overhauled "Dynaco" Mark III mono blocks(KT88s) and they sing like angels. Also have a pair of KEF 105.3's that were served with similar amplification. I have many amp choices(tube and solid-state),but I lean towards tube amps,usually. They have been driven with my "Carver" M4.0 and "Bryston" 2B-LP,as well. All with different sound signatures,but still thoroughly enjoyable!

Frank

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 Post subject: Re: building my system around KEF 104/2 - amp suggestions?PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:50 am 

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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:25 pm

Posts: 21

Location: Vancouver, BC, CA

Well I've got my eye on:

Bryston 4b st; both local and ebay, the local is easy of course but its $1500

Aragon 4004; ebay at at around $800

There are a few Quad 44/405 combinations available; ebay, but i wondered if the 405 might be a little light on horsepower.

The Naim gear is out of my price range

Would it be fair to suggest that the warmth of the amps below are listed in the order of increasing warmth?

Bryston 4bst

Aragon 4004

Quad 405 or 606

btw, i do have a Bryston 3b that has not been re-capped. its ok but not as detailed as i would like. I assuming the 4bst would address that concern.

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dmrose

dmrose

New Member

I'm new to the forum and have learned a lot.

I inheited a pair of Kef 104/2 speakers that I am planning to restore. The owner's manual says they will run fine using 25 - 200 wpc. Most opinions I've found suggest they need a lot of power. Other opinions just reference high-quality power; one in 10 says they sound fine with 25 - 50 wpc. The Kef sales person that forwarded me the owner's manual said 150 - 200wpc for 4 ohm.

힘이 좋은 앰프가 필요하다는게 중론이라는 것을 알았다. 다른 의견은 레퍼런스급 고급 파워가 필요하다는 의견도 있었고, 출력은 25-50 w 면 된다는 소수 의견도 있었다. KEF 의 세일즈맨은 150-200w(4옴 기준)가 적정하다고 쓰여있는 사용자매뉴얼을 내게 전해줬다.

I'm not planning on playing these very loud, nor am I an audiophile. I do like to buy quality stuff

I've been thinking about a Marantz 2275, that is rated at 85 wpc 8 ohm, 130 wpc 4 ohm, and the simplicity of a single unit. Or, if I really need a power amp, then a smaller receiver - say the Marantz 2230 - and move that money saved into the amp.

나는 크게 들을 계획도 없고, 오디오파일도 아니다. 그래서, 마란츠 2275(85w/8옴) 한개로 갈 생각이다. 

I welcome opinions from folks on which way to go. If I run the 2230 through an amp, will I lose that 'warm' Marantz sound? Any amp suggestions (I'd like my solution - receiver only or receiver/amp combo) to be $800 or less.

This is just for a small study, easy listening of everthing from classical to Grateful Dead to NPR to Jack Johnson.

Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

dmrose, Jun 9, 2011 #1

 KentTeffeteller

KentTeffeteller

Gimpus Stereophilus!

McIntosh 2300 is best. Plenty of power, reliable into 4 ohm loads all day long, and with care will last you a lifetime and then some. Not a receiver friendly speaker.